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crying in decentralization efforts
Hell, even worse, crying in the lost information. Discord is a black hole where community knowledge goes to die.
It’s the worst.
I hate it so much, even when I NEED to go there for help and support, I know I’m likely the tenth person to ask the same question. I honestly don’t know why so many people love this way of support, just document it!
Also you need an account to even view it. And I’ve heard they’re really trigger-happy about banning the accounts or holding them hostage until you provide a phone number…
I’ve found that if it’s set up right, it works well for announcements and short discussions around that. But as far as support, it’s absolute trash. It’s nice for slightly quicker communication on updates than than updating a website, and I’ll see all the backlash from users saying “this update broke everything you idiots”, so I know to wait.
The Discord-based “support” makes it a “meh.” The main devs alt-right BS makes it a “hard pass.”
Lemmy was created by a tankie, many of whose opinions I abhor.
As long as it’s FOSS and doesn’t inherently promote their beliefs, I will use the software.
I agree it’s not great and I’d prefer if it weren’t made by imbeciles
Tankies are annoying, but they’re not on the same level as fascists.
TBH, it is very difficult to me differentiating between the different flavors of authoritarians.
Maybe someone can make an easy to understand comparison matrix? You know, “Kills people because they have a different opinion.”, “Suppresses minorities.”, etc.
There’s basically ideologues versus hateful people versus indifferent sociopaths (overlap is common)
I consider political ideologues and “technocrats” and extremely pedantic rule-following bureaucrats to be different flavors of ideologues (has a specific worldview they try to enforce / uphold)
Fascism, just like Communism or even a Dictatorships are not inherently bad.
We as humans key in on the oppressive authoritarianism of them as the evil in the system.
That’s why I’d recommend you lump them all together as “oppressive authoritarianism” until one of them proves us otherwise, and not to need to find the nuances between them to prove they’re bad.
Fascism, just like Communism or even a Dictatorships are not inherently bad
No offense but what the fuck are you even saying
Fascism is absolutely inherently bad, there is no removal of its evil, oppressive, and authoritarian traits after which anything is left.
In their defense, if everyone was perfect everything would be perfect.
But you’re absolutely right. As long as humans are human there’s no way to separate human nature from authority. And as a result, any system that doesn’t strictly limit scope and authority is inherently bad.
Fascism, just like Communism or even a Dictatorships are not inherently bad.
Absolutely incorrect. Without getting into anything about the viability of a “good” dictatorship, that’s a different discussion… Fascism is absolutely inherently bad. The entire ideology is based on: lies, hatred, discrimination, oppression, censorship, unjust hierarchies, desire and ability to eliminate large swathes of their own population based on some inconsequential aspect of who they fundamentally are, etc.
It’s folly (at best… dangerous at worst) to equate fascism with far-left ideologies, or even include them in the same league when it comes to evilness. Not a single aspect of socialism as it exists in theory, so to speak, is objectively bad/evil. What happens is evil people use it as a vehicle to seize power. On the contrary, fascism is evil to the core. There is not a single redeeming factor to it.
While you might not agree with the methods of the “far left” (I certainly don’t w.r.t. tankies), the ideology of socialism is based on: worker’s rights, egalitarianism, equity, social safety nets, mutual aid, etc.
Nothing about it “in theory” is anything remotely close to evil. Now compare that with fascism…
Both facists and tankies have genocided disabled people and selectively killed anarchists.
As a disabled anarchist, they end up seeming pretty similar to me.
I’ve recently been reading some anarchist texts (Emma Goldman, Kropotkin…), and I really like a lot of their ideas. Love the way Kropotkin writes too.
However (and to be clear, I’m sure I’ve barely scratched the surface), the past decade or two has had a profound effect on my opinion of people in general, and their ability (and/or desire) to organize and self-regulate at such a scale. As such, anarchism just does not seem like a viable solution in the modern world.
As we’ve seen, even with our relatively structured, centralized, government, so much of it was just so easily steamrolled by a handful of bad actors. Our “checks and balances” turned out to just be empty words.
If anything, the past couple of decades has made it abundantly clear to me that what we need is a strong federal government where nothing is based on good faith, or social norms, but actual rule of law. No, it shouldn’t be optional to release your financials. No, you should not be able to just ignore it when your chode son-in-law’s security clearance is denied like a dozen times. No, you don’t get to just do whatever the fuck you want because you were elected President.
How do we stop that without some kind of centralized government?
And yes, I understand the dangers here… But it could be done right. South Korea seems to know how to deal with coup attempts. Same with Brazil…
As a disabled non-anarchist, fuck both parties
As a non-disabled non-anarchist, yeah fuck them
Then why do they keep praising a fascist country like Russia?
Wait a minute. Tankies praise Russia and American fascists praise Russia? It really is a circle of shit.
It’s not a circle, it’s more of a grid, with left/right on one axis and authoritarianism/libertarianism on the other. Facists and tankies align on the authoritarianism axis.
mbin is better.
Is there any source for this?
i know there was a thing at the beginning of the project where they wrote a lot of the documentation with masculine pronouns (assuming the reader was male), and when they were asked to change that for gender neutral pronouns, they said no because “they don’t want politics in their project”
beyond that however, idk if they eventually changed that or if they did other bad stuff
edit: here is a source
Not really. A random person submitted a PR with just one pronoun change in the code comments (not the documentation, and not anything remotely visible to the end user).
The developer rejected the (useless, in my opinion) PR.
No, there is no source, because it’s an overinflated nothingburger created to stir up controversy and division.
Alt right bs?
Why always discord… Why!!!
because a turn key platform they don’t have to self host and maintain frees them up to do the work.
Oh shit. I despise Discord, why not a normal forum?!
What’s the worst - Discord doesn’t seem to provide any particular convenience over Mumble for voice calls while playing games or anything else. Just being in one app in one place is its advantage.
It’s like Telegram, just better quality, worse optimization, more moderation.
I’m with you. I install Legcord now so that I don’t have to install that shitty application on my actual computer. I highly recommend it for those communities that refuse to use anything else!
You don’t have to install anything. It’s a website. I don’t understand why people install the app (or any app that is a website in a wrapper).
Might want to look into Legcord, because it is definitely more than just a wrapper, friend.
I use it in a browser tab because I refuse to have them snoop around on my running processes.
The main issue I have right now: the jurisdiction of this is in the US, and to be honest, I don’t trust the US that much when it comes to privacy laws regarding the (near) future.
what r they gonna do if it’s open source and doesn’t collect data. worry more about ur OS
I’m pretty sure my Debian doesn’t collect personal data either
I’m not naive enough anymore for this kind of trust.
Ask Mozilla
the EU wants backdoors to encryptions, so eu not any better.
It certainly is the lesser evil though.
I donate to Ladybird and Servo, and I hope they succeed. We need serious competition and a check on Mozilla (not to mention Chrome and Safari).
That said, I’m sad that neither Ladybird or Servo are licensed under strong copyleft licenses. We need user-oriented browsers now more than ever, and strong copyleft enables that. I worry that, even if these engines are successful, they will be co-opted by proprietary browsers and eventually superseded by them.
This happened before - both Chrome and Safari ultimately derive from KHTML, Konqueror’s browser engine. If KHTML had been licnesed under the GPL instead of the LGPL, Chrome and Safari (and not just their engines) may have been free software today. Or, at the very least, it would have been much more difficult for Apple and Google to get started.
That said, I wish Ladybird the best. There donation = no influence policy is excellent, and I really, really hope they can stick to it in the long term.
No.
If khtml had been GPL, it simply never would have been used for chrome or safari, some other engine would have been picked.
Anything but real open source for these types of companies
To be fair, kubernetes comes from Google.
How does one have a donation = no influence policy?
Huge companies donate to make open apps like this reliant on them. Then they threaten to pull the donation if that doesn’t happen…
Strong Copyleft licenses protect from this by allowing others to fork and keep an app going without being taken advantage of.
If Google donates 1 billion dollars tomorrow, and over several months, Ladybird will expand to use that money. Then Google can threaten to stop the donations unless LB does something like “make ad blockers worse”
It’s a web browser. The only money they will make is from donations. Unless they do something wonky with their business model, like charge. Then no one will use it anyway.
Frankly at this point I’d be willing to contribute to a strongly copyleft, privacy focused browser even if it meant yet another fucking ‘subscription’
in my mind it’s kinda the point of Ladybird to have a permissively licensed implementation of web standards, I like permissive licenses if only because they reduce legal risks
I prefer permissive licenses but how do they reduce legal risks?
Copyleft licenses are harder to comply with, they usually come with clauses that can be interpreted in different ways, termination clauses, etc.
Ah. Gotcha. Agreed.
That would not have changed much, since browser engines are million-manhours projects and a small group of devs doing that voluntary, just isn’t enough.
Isn’t servo mostly a Mozilla-led project? I thought servo would probably just replace gecko as the engine firefox used if it ends up succeeding
Iirc it started its life that way but Mozilla abandoned it and the community picked it up
Servo is developed by Igalia at this point. Mozilla is not involved.
Good, the world is in dire need of competition in this arena.
To go along with the alt right stuff, one of their major donors is Shopify.
So what?
Shopify willingly hosted and sold Kanye’s swastika shirt.
Why is this relevant to this sponsorship and the development of the browser? I wouldn’t mind Kanye donating himself if that ensures that we get a great browser. Who cares where the money comes from?
Wow. So if Nazis contributed to a project you like that’d be ok cause that’s what I’m reading from your reply…
Yes. Support is unidirectional not bidirectional.
Holy shit… Dude you need to reevaluate your world view.
Nazis go to cinemas and pay tickets, supporting the cinema’s business. But that doesn’t mean the cinema endorces nazism. Your logic is simply flawed.
Alright, read up on it a bit more. Sadly the language choices (C++ now, maybe Swift later) rubs me the wrong way for something that needs to be incredibly secure against attacks. I really really support additional browser engines, but likely not this one.
Thus I think Servo is a better choice for those looking to contribute. IMHO.
Quite happy to see Servo coming along again. I am still excited for Ladybird and it seems more likely to deliver a truly viable browser sooner.
I am not a Swift dev but I think it has decent memory safety as well. I think it is one of the reasons Ladybird is moving to it. They evaluated Rust and decided it lacked the OOP features they needed.
The C++ that Ladybird writes is also very good. They have their own standard library (written for SerenityOS) which is very modern including memory safety and security. Still C++ though of course.
A good breakdown on their progress: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43200604
Once Servo is finished, we might have a browser rennaisance (I hope)
That would be nice. I know lately I’ve been playing around with gopher sites with command line browsers. It’s been fun seeing what others have made.
We definitely need more competition in the browser space, I just wish it wasn’t using such a permissive license as the BSD.
You’re free to fork and use a more restrictive license, that’s one of the cool things about BSD licenses. It’s not like it’s something dumb like the CDDL, which is incompatible with the GPL (and many other licenses) and the reason ZFS can’t be directly included in the kernel.
Just installed it on void. Still not quite usable for daily use but it’s not bad.
Totally not related to recent events
I’ll be great. The big question is how long it’s left until a stable release
Ladybird says 2026. Given the current state and progress, I believe it may be quite usable by then. I use it sometimes for basic surfing and leaving forum comments. It works surprisingly well often though it is still far from general use. I think the dev team tries to use it themselves for things like Discord and GutHub. They did a demo last month where it “almost” ran Gmail.
I am not sure that Servo has set a timeline. I expect it to take longer.
If you don’t mind my asking, what forums do you use? I’m trying to find new communities.
I’ve been testing it out, it’s pretty fucking rad.
Politics aside, I’d be curious to see how far something like this can go. Can’t not think of Opera Software - even they were not successful while they were using their own proprietary tech.
