Fuck you Bobby.
Why trust experts when you can just let Facebook tell you what to believe?
Just a little oregano oil and apple cider vinegar.
You forgot the essential oils.
Why do these people even use the hospital for birth if thry are going to fight their standard care? Stay home and no one will bug you about any shots, dumbasses.
They do stay home, rather than a doctor or nurses being seconds away, they’d rather have birth in their living rooms in a fucking blow up pool with a midwife. Who they trust more than literal doctors and nurses.
Aren’t midwives, like, experts in childbirth tho?
There is no mandatory certification system for midwives. So you might get lucky and get a former emergency room nurse, or you might get unlucky and get someone who believes crystals will stop the bleeding or turn the baby around.
Wow that must be a US thing then, NHS in the UK definitely doesn’t send unqualified midwives into the field!
Yep, it’s kind of the wild west out there eh.
Yeah same in Aus, must be something we’re to civilised to understand
To a point, but if there is a major complication like hemorrhage they call an ambulance and have thoughts and prayers no one dies on the way to hospital.
Oh don’t worry they do that too.
They just want someone else to clean up the mess.
These morons have been brainwashed to visualize life-saving immunizations as “scary unfeeling doctor man forced poison into my sweet innocent baby”.
And they just eat it the fuck up.
The two major narratives I see on Lemmy about healthcare in the US.
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The medical companies are profit driven and untrustworthy
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People who don’t trust the medical companies are frustratingly ignorant.
Of course the issues are complicated and woven with details and nuance, though I have to wonder if there isn’t a reason why this happening beyond “They’re brainwashed”
Of course, the next show to drop is health insurance refusing to pay out for costs that could have been prevented with vaccines.
You don’t trust the companies. We’re supposed to be able to trust the FDA and CDC
The FDA admin has had a revolving door with pharma for decades.
The #2 person at FDA was fired recently for soliciting bribes for approval. He approved many drugs. This has been a problem under Biden as well.
I know I’m the outsider here, but isn’t there a long history of abuse even in the government health organisations?
Like full on medical experiments on US citizens without their knowledge?
On some level, yes. Most of the experiments were performed on socially vulnerable populations (racial minorities, the mentally ill, prisoners, etc). But for the average (white) citizen, this is a history lesson, not something that informs current behaviors. Additionally, much of that is tied to organizations like the military, which is usually seen as a different part of the government.
The FDA actually had a very good run of being relatively citizen-focused and making things safer. It’s only somewhat recently they’ve fully pivoted to the “businesses are clients” model, so a lot of people haven’t adapted.
Also, to your original point, my perception is that the lack of trust in the profit driven medical world is not that they can’t help, but that they’ll deny help if it costs too much. A common sentiment I hear is that the US has “the best healthcare in the world,” and then complaints about how the insurance process bars access to it because of money.
Yes, there are people who believe things like “they’ve cured cancer but keep the cure hidden to make money off the treatments,” but that’s not the norm.
Someone with a Master’s degree told me just the other day, “I feel like GP1s were just made to fix an illness they gave us” without acknowledging that the private processed food industry gave us that illness, not the medical community, which is who she was referencing. This belief is more and more common, that it’s all a grand conspiracy to keep us sick so they can sell us more treatments, even folks in healthcare say that shit. It’s depressing as hell.
The idea that goal was to get us sick is a canard. The likely reality is that its just that politically motivated subsidies and cultural shifts, with a healthy dose of capitalism, is what’s the culprit.
Saying it’s like a grand conspiracy would be kinda like saying early Americans’ obsession with drinking whiskey was some sort of diabolical machination. Nah: people like getting fucked up. People like doritos. It’s just dialing in what makes money on the short term.
But 10,000x yes: people can’t discern who the “them” really is. They’re not working together as much as you’d think. We’re just all living under every evil motherfucker pulling in a similar direction.
Saying it’s like a grand conspiracy would be kinda like saying early Americans’ obsession with drinking whiskey was some sort of diabolical machination. Nah: people like getting fucked up.
The hilarious part is that alcoholic beverages and other mind-altering substances can be traced back to the dawn of humanity.
Like you said: Humans just really enjoy getting fucked up. On that line - I’m convinced “God” was a mushroom trip.
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Vitamin k
My ex-MIL denied her kids this. It’s child abuse, pure and simple. Nice lady, but it’s child abuse. She should be overruled by the doctors. Insane we allow this to happen
Now imagine refusing perinatal antiretrovirals
Did the most progressive (science) birth ever. Always vaccinate all the vaccines.
But iirc vitamin k was the one thing they really encouraged the parents to decide for themselves
I was initially against vitK with my newborn, simply because I didn’t want her to be messed with a bunch in her first 48hrs of life. The Dr explained I was going to drive home in Miami traffic, and it was safest to get the vitamin K to prevent excessive bleeding if we crashed,so I consented and she got the shot with me feeding her. Im very pro vaccine, and she has all her shots. The best solution is to find a dr you trust and trust their advice. As informed as I felt i was im neither a scientist nor a doctor. My feelings of not wanting her to be messed with are valid, but science > feelings.
Your feelings aren’t valid, because modern diets don’t necessarily have the complete array of components that we know we need, and the standard of care fills common gaps that we’ve found.
So unless you were getting your breast milk tested in advance to identify if your diet has filled these common gaps, no your daughter absolutely needed to be messed with to give her the strongest baseline for her development that we can give her.
Really, you know this, which is why you are enthusiastic about vaccines. You know that the negative side effects of vaccines are much more palatable than the negative effects of diseases.
“Messed with” is vague, emotionally charged, and doesn’t describe the actual thing.
If you had feelings about the ethics of artificially filling a nutrient gap, those would actually be more valid even though when you put it in those terms it seems completely stupid.
So many children have been abused by conspiracy theory parents denying them life saving medical care. We need to push back against these anti-vaccine lunatics and educate the public.
Maybe they were all looking for the most evil and disgusting way to win a (late) darwin award.
In the end there are fewer of their genes in the big pool. If that what they want… tragic, but can’t force them.
As long as its Americans falling for this shit I think the rest of the world can live with some Darwin awards. All of this science and research and you kill yourself by refusing is allowed in my books. Remember were animals and we shouldn’t be saving people who don’t want to be saved.
oh my satan what a trump title. Seriously this is an old news item so I know what it is about but man it could not be more obfuscated. Its about vitamin k shots.
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It’s not religion that makes people stupid. Plenty of religious people aren’t anti-vax.
Plenty of atheists are also stupid. Stupid people are everywhere, don’t limit them to one group.
Actually, I think anti-vaxxers are one group we could blame for all this.
There are many, many, antivax doctors, even pediatricians. No one touches their licences and one in Canada is getting her legal bills covered by Musk.
Both sides do it, both sides do it.
Well… They do.
If they’re not trying to stop others from getting what’s needed, I see no problem. In fact, I see a solution
Social conservatives have shown, time and again, that they won’t stop at simply refusing treatment for themselves. They want to make sure that everyone lives according to their beliefs. They will, of course, claim they are protecting children.
We can deal with that bridge when we cross it, but until then I’m all ears on a better option for the current issue
It’s easy:
Your kid doesn’t get to participate in any public services (school, for instance) if they are not vaccinated - no non-medical exceptions. And it is illegal to refuse to educate your kid.
That’s a genuinely good idea! What do you think are the chances that will ever happen?
That used to be a thing in a lot of states - admittedly, there were some more exceptions, but generally school districts were reasonably strict about it, as a matter of public and community health. But the antivax movement took a lot of the teeth out of those mandates - so much so that many places in the US have lost their herd immunity as a result of so many idiot parents “doing their own research”.
I was in school when those requirements were mandatory. Truly a shame how far the us has fallen since then
Being raised by conservative assholes shouldn’t be a death sentence.
I’m all ears on a better solution
I was raised by said conservatives and if I was born thirty years later I’d have been unvaccinated. I don’t have a good answer for you. But you’re condemning a lot of people (that may eventually disagree with their parents!) to a pretty unhealthy existence.
Maybe consider being a little less gleeful when thinking about dead kids, even if their parents are assholes.
Sounds like we had similar upbringings. Never said I had a good answer, I just answered. These people live to defy the common good if they’re told it will hurt the people they’ve been trained to hate. Do you really think trying to force them to do the right thing won’t result in them resisting even more? That that approach doesn’t result in even more of those children dying? It’s by no means what I want, so please don’t conflate that with me acknowledging this reality in a cynical tone. I’m talking about members of my family who feel this way, you think I don’t personally understand the consequence of what I’m suggesting?
In fact, I see a solution
I can’t conceive of any context in which this doesn’t mean “the suffering of children is a good outcome.” Like, the suffering of children will convince their parents that they were wrong?
There is a simple solution:
- Vaccinations are provided at no cost.
- Vaccinations are required by law. No religious exemption. No “I’m a parent and I say so” exemption.
- Day one of school will be vaccination catch-up day for kids who have fallen behind.
That won’t get everyone. But it’ll get enough to ensure broad community immunity. The people writing and implementing the laws just have to be willing to grow a spine and say “your opinion as a parent does not overrule medical science.”
I don’t want anyone to suffer who didn’t cause someone else to suffer first, but realizing that suffering will occur due to others ignorance regardless of what I want isn’t me condoning it. And yes, I can’t think of a more direct way to get ignorant parents to understand the harm they’ve caused than for their own children to suffer from their actions. The whole argument is based on getting the people causing the suffering to stop. These people are wildly selfish; you think they care about anything that doesn’t affect them? It’s terrible that it’s reached that point, but if you don’t realize that yet, you’re living in a dream world. These people wouldn’t wear masks to prevent the spread of COVID, but they’ll happily support state thugs wearing them while disappearing anyone who isn’t white or who speaks out against the regime.
Your solution is simple and effective, and in any other developed country outside the us it’s probably reality already. Do you live in the us? If you don’t, then it may be hard for you to understand why no part of your plan will happen at present. If you do live here, then you’re just plain ignorant to the reality here. Do I wish things were different here? With all my heart. I plan on leaving this shithole country as soon as I can.
I’m posing a solution based on reality. You’re proposing a solution based on a situation that doesn’t exist where the problem is. Please don’t confuse my acceptance of the current situation with approval of it.
I can’t think of a more direct way to get ignorant parents to understand the harm they’ve caused than for their own children to suffer from their actions
I don’t need them to understand. I’m okay if they’re angry. They can throw a fit on Facebook and get a million likes. But if their kid doesn’t get the measles, it’s worth it.
You’re saying you want to be proven right. I’m saying I don’t care what they think as long as their kids are okay.
And yeah, I’m from the US. A rural town from a flyover state. My parents vaccinated me during the Clinton administration because the whole right wing coalition was there to disagree with him, not convince their rank and file that he was the antichrist.
They can’t make their constituents hate “the left” (for whatever that’s worth in the US) any more than they already do. So why not just do the right thing? You’re correct in that center-left people will never enact what I’m suggesting. I’m going to stick around and make sure better people replace them.
But they are stopping others from getting what’s needed, their own child. Without said child’s consent.
I’m absolutely open to alternatives. List away!
The alternative is: not let them opt out for bullshit reasons. Like every other developed country out there
Other developed countries separate church and state, not the US.
Who knew it was that simple! Did you tell the head of DHS that? I’m sure this regime will get right on it as soon as you correct the error of their ways!
You’re not very smart.
Solid deflection. In what world do you think that would actually happen in the us? Feel free to detail how it would actually play out. Take all the time you need
That’s a job for a doctor, which I am not.
Fair enough
A final one?
Fuck no
What you proposed is straight up eugenics. To you, letting babies die preventable deaths because their parents are idiots isn’t a problem, it’s a solution to idiots.
Again; I’m open to better options. IDK if you’re american or not, but I am. I live in the american south. I deal with these people on a daily basis. They’re not worth tolerating. It’s not lost on me that their children are innocent, but I’m open to suggestions on how to convince them that giving up some of their personal freedom for the greater good is the best path forward, because the vast majority wouldn’t even put on a mask during COVID to help others. They’ll happily let their kids die to preserve their idea of ‘freedom’. How do propose getting them to voluntarily help their children?
Simple, you don’t convince them. You give them no choice and impose penalties for not doing it.
I’m sure rfk jr’s brain worm will jump right on that plan. You must not live in america, right?
No, I’m American. I didn’t say it was a likely thing to happen, just that it’s a simple fix.
Good thing they aren’t the final arbiter of truth, the all knowing, omniscient, all powerful enforcer of that which is true and just. But you aren’t either, so its good that you also don’t have that power.
Lol, the truth. Why don’t we just tell them that what they believe isn’t true, I’m sure they’ll come to their senses after hearing that 🤣 I don’t remember claiming to be anything other than someone still waiting on folks to reply with what should be done since they’re real chatty about what they think shouldn’t be.
