- cross-posted to:
- canada@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- canada@lemmy.ca
cross-posted from: https://discuss.online/post/35133068
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Would you like a buggy whip with your gas guzzler, Sir?
“It’s bad for consumers” is one of those phrases that’s been misused so often I’m amazed these cunts still try to use it with a straight face. It’s like “I’m not racist, but” in terms of phrases that are widely understood to mean their direct opposite.
They’ll stop using it when people stop falling for it.
This might be the best thing to happen to Americans in a long time and it’s the result of shitty anti consumer US policy 😂 at long last I might be able to buy a Toyota helix
I’m an American… The US deserves this. Glad this is happening.
I think you mean this as deserved punishment and I agree, but maybe there’s also a silver lining: we deserve this, to break up the dead dinosaur cartel, to restart innovation, to free consumers from a prison of protectionism around overpriced legacy vehicles and help light the way to future technology
When all you want to do is sell vastly more expensive but quality poor versions of last century’s product, you should be afraid. American automakers have had the government prop up their manufacturing for decades leaving the rest of the world open to create this century’s products.
Oh man…I am American but I yearn for the day when I can buy a pickup with a full bed the size of a Daewoo Lanos
American free market advocates when the market is free:
Nothing is more of a hoax than the concept of the “American Free Market.”
WRONG!.gif
Freedom of speech.
Freedom of information.
The hoax that we have the best anything.
I could go on. Americans are massively deluded into thinking they’re special and our country is amazing because they’ve never set foot outside of it. Even our internet feed is radically tuned towards isolationism. We are slightly above the “communist” countries that so many people in the US decry for building great firewalls or cutting their people off from the outside world.
Anyone who’s ever traveled and opened up their youtube account in another country’s airport even would know just how limited our vision of the world really is, and how much our news and speech is controlled.
God I fucking hate stealerships. If car dealer cartels in the US as a concept die as a result of this era of idiocy we’re in, that’s a pretty great silver lining.
Want wasn’t it regean that made it a law you couldn’t buy directly from the manufacturer because he was buddies with people who owned major dealerships. And it just stuck since then.
He also imposed an import tax on motorcycles because Harley Davidson was deathly afraid that riders would rush out to purchase a Japanese bike that didn’t drip oil everywhere and reliably starts when you press the button.
Things like that and tariffs are absolutely useful tools for trade issues: TARGETED, TEMPORARY tools. There would have been nothing wrong with temporary protection for Harley Davidson if it were temporary, if there was a deadline where they have to start competing again.
Regulations were put in place to prevent manufacturers from opening their own stores right next to the dealers they worked with. Dealers assume some risk when they take on inventory. Apparently it’s not like a bookstore where any unsold copies just go back to the publisher. It’s still a flimsy justification though and enshrined these middlemen who then enshittified everything. Worse, in some cases manufacturers are entirely prevented from selling direct, even if they don’t work with dealerships. It’s too much.
Bet most of them voted for Trump too.
Which is hilarious considering how so many of them are getting absolutely wrecked by the tariffs. Because they can either eat the tariff and hemorrhage money, or pass on the tariff to customers and hemorrhage sales (and thus hemorrhage money).
I wonder when they’re gonna realize that they should try something other than shooting themselves in the dick? Time will tell, I suppose.
Such a weird, American-only practice, like with American health insurance. The whole country is a scam, jeez.
Um, only having been tourist to the US, how does it work?
Edit: the car dealership. What’s different to e.g. Europe (the referenced American only practice)
That’s the neat part, it doesn’t!
Which one?
The first comment talks about stealership, the next about weird us practice and I have no idea what they are referring to 😁.
In Europe we habe car dealers, franchise, independent or do buy privately but they can all act independently.
Is there a cartel or something in the US for car dealerships?
It really is
We have one of the most car dependent societies in the world and also the highest car prices. Burn it down and deregulate.
Deregulate? So corporations can enslave you completely? Huh?
Where did Americans get this idea that regulation is holding you back? Probably the same “think tanks” that convinced so many they were poor because of immigrants instead of… as usual… the wool being pulled over your eyes by the wealth addicts…
Probably because the regulations protect the corporations while screwing the consumers. If a rule heavily benefits the companies then it could be a good idea to remove it. Although I do think that blanket deregulation is too broad and too prone to being twisted against the populace.
the highest car prices
Hmmmm
I’ll take any silver lining, but I’m not sure if whatever replaced it will be any better given how the Chinese have acted in markets they’ve achieved majority stake in.
Tbh being able to purchase cars direct from the manufacturer would be dope. New car dealers are literally nothing but middlemen.
Yeah, useless middlemen are kinda a thing in the US economy.
Tax filling software companies left the chat.
deleted by creator
Hate middlemen all you want, but that employment level is the driving economic force behind the middle class. Get rid of the middleman, without any serious wage reforms, and you’ll have a nation of 5% filthy rich, and 95% dirt poor.
We’re pretty much already there. Having worked at a “good” dealership, it became pretty obvious that only the owner and their managers were making good money. Everyone else? Not at all.
I really don’t think it’s that hard.
Other countries have figured it out and nationalized these various industries. The fun part is that there’s still luxury, concierge medical care and insurance too alongside nationalized health care.
Fully agree. I just don’t trust China any much more than the US to respect privacy and consumer choice. Color me prejudiced if you want, but I’ve dealt with enough Chinese suppliers to have a decent idea of how they operate.
I mean I don’t either, but us unitedstatesians are now subjected to the tender mercies of Palantir, which is kind of fucking awful… so, potato, potato.
Fair. At least the stated mission of the Chinese isn’t to be evil for evil’s sake. Palantir just seems like an accelerationist’s tool and nothing more.
Yep, and the CEO essentially says as much on a regular basis. Not to mention, the origin of the name of the company is the scrying sphere that Sauron and Saruman (the bad guys) in LOTR use, so that’s telling in a comically dark fashion as well.
I don’t drive, so I don’t buy cars. But I’m curious, how would that work to buy directly from the manufacturer as opposed to a dealership? Like I assume they would still have to have the equivalent of a dealership, where inventory is locally stored, can be test driven, can perform servicing. I assume that’s pretty much the same as a dealership right?
For example Tesla does not have dealers. They have to have similar functions but they’re owned and operated by Tesla, not a third party
- they have showroom, including visible places like malls
- they have service centers, somewhat regional. I have two within half hour drive, but also do a surprising amount of service visits mobile
- they have places to pick up your vehicle, typically a service center, or some of the time they are delivered
New car experience you go to a dealer, independent middlemen, where they attempt to steer you toward higher profit choices, and the prices are all negotiated where they’re the only ones who know the cost and they have a practiced skill to extract money. It’s exhausting and time consuming
New car experience with Tesla: you may look at the vehicle in the mall or online. you schedule a test drive from wherever is nearest: mine was at the mall they had a showroom in the shopping area and a small section of the parking garage for test drive. You buy online and pay list price where all the options, prices, and financing are visible before you choose to buy. They schedule a pickup time, which might be from a regional service center. Much simpler and easier, and you never feel exploited or scammed
You’re not spending any time getting exploited by a sales-bro, none of that stupid thing where they “have to speak to their manager” so you can stew or second guess. No games with interest or tradeins, surprise incentives, bargains with the devil
Go to website, order car with exact color, accessory you want.
Vs
Company orders 55 blue, 55 red, 56 yellow, 55 black with 55 power seats, 55 power consol, 55 …
Tesla does this. They have showrooms to test drive cars and then you order it online or at the showroom and wait for delivery.
If you go to a us dealership, there’s pretty much always some sort of financing deal or somesuch. But there’s also very often a “dealer markup”. Never, ever pay that.
That said, for some cars, they refuse to budge on that. For instance, when the new Nissan Z came out a few years ago, the dealers tacked on like 10-15k pretty much across the board, and then Nissan corporate was surprised when it didn’t sell too well… because the dealerships got too fucking greedy.
If I needed to buy a new car, I’d vastly prefer to just spec it out online, click “order”, and then have a text come in when it arrives at my local Nissan or BMW or Hyundai maintenance facility (as appropriate for the car). I do not want to talk to a human and have to literally socially engineer them into giving me a fair fucking price. Jesus christ.
The problem is the sticker price typically already has excessive dealer markup built in. A line that says that is pure scam , never pay that. But even if you consider the list price, there’s an entire industry around trying to figure out the dealer actual cost and how to pay only a reasonable markup. Meanwhile you have these scammer who are paid commission based on how much they can con you out of. Their incentive is to be predatory
All dealers gouged all car buyers during Covid shortages. Jeep was particularly agregious and the world would be better without any Stellantis products.
Lmfao who wants to buy a
ChryslerStellantis product? They’re just… bad. They’re not even cheaper. They’re just worse, and break more.
GOOD
good
Removed by mod
Boo mods
I was confused too. This comment doesn’t look too bad but given it’s a 7 hour old account it made several multi-paragraph comments like this in a formulaic outrage-bait kinda way. This comment looks fine but the full comment history is pretty AI like
Full comment history: https://files.catbox.moe/uf48if.png
Fair enough. Wish we’d get a reason something was removed though.
Yeah, they’re part of the problem.
We need new instances with better moderation.
Don’t forget their political aspirations!!
Car Dealers Recipients • OpenSecrets https://share.google/4nIu8I09iOKCgt4wH
Un-american here. Does Canada have the same direct sales ban as the US? Same dealer lobby in both countries?
Tesla does not use dealerships in Canada or US. Dealerships and insurance agents, brokers , real estate agents are are redundant leeches on society.
It was a fight though, and that’s probably still going on in some states. There were many lawsuits trying to block them. At one point Tesla was opening locations on native reservations to escape state level protections of car dealerships.
I think common sense won out, believe it or not. Given the dealership model, it makes some sense at least historically, to protect dealers from manufacturers. But when you have a manufacturer that doesn’t have dealerships and never had, where does your argument about protecting these non-existing dealers go?
Do you write for a living? You should write for a living. 👌
Was gonna say the same thing, evocative
And now a mod removed the comment?! 😔
It’s an AI bot
Huh, well, it made good points anyhow, I guess the one thing it’s decent at is fooling me every now and then lol
This community has an AI bot as a mod?
How many US car manufacturer CEOs endorsed Trump? I’m betting a lot.
I really hope American car manufacturers go bankrupt. American cars are the worst. The rest of the world has better cars.
American manufacturers (GM, Tesla, Ford) only make up a minority of sales here. The majority of car sales are manufacturers from “the rest of the world.”
Before the current chaos, it really didn’t even make sense to have that distinction. My Toyota and my Honda were both built in the us. Not just assembled, but with a higher percentage of us-manufactured parts than my old pontiac
Why do we care? I can be a shareholder either way, if I had money. The executives dont care about me either way nor do they directly affect me. But it’s nice when the factory is here, employing thousands of my fellow citizens.
Having lived through it, I also understand this was a hard-won battle for local labor, fought for in previous trade battles
They should specialize in muscle cars. Those were fun.
You can’t even buy a Toyota truck with a decent bed length though.
I miss the original small Toyota trucks. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1980-toyota-pickup-3/
“It’s bad for our industry, it’s bad for our country, it’s bad for consumers.”
I think they (accidentally, of course) left out the people that it’s worst for.
Once these guys are gone, where are the Better Business Bureaus gonna find smarmy guys in suits?
Good, maybe they’ll realize nobody wants cars being as complete as AAA video game titles… Aka overpriced shit that’s half assed with loads of issues.
Don’t forget their hurtling towards the subscription model. You pay for all the features, then pay monthly to be able to use them.
The only bright side is that you’ll be able to find hacks that enable them all on piratebay.
Haha probably not TPB but I get what you’re saying. Does anyone actually still use that site?!
It’s not dead. Gotta use sandboxes with software though.
I’m literally worried about buying a new car. It was bad enough when I did in 2019 getting a car with actual buttons and still half the basic features I have to tap a screen for. It’s never, never felt comfortable like my old Mazda3 2012 or Honda Civic 2003 did. I just want fucking buttons and knobs man. I also hate all of the “safety features”. Which are just essentially “feel safer while using your phone and driving” features that all the idiots on the road use them as. Everyone can see your lane assist correcting you every 5 seconds Debra! You’re gonna kill someone.
I got a second hand Toyota Corolla last year, '22 reg. Everything has a physical button. It’s got a touchscreen but I rarely use it and doesn’t connect to the internet.
I must have made it just under the wire
My 2018 Honda Civic doesn’t have a touchscreen, all knobs and buttons, and the only safety features are things like airbags/traction control/ABS
Afaik Honda explicitly sided with the knobs crowd — though apparently after having flirted with the touchscreens, so presumably some of their cars do have them.
What does the backup camera use for a screen?
My lexus uses a small screen built into the rearview mirror for the backup cam. Car was designed by people who can do math in their heads.
You can still have a screen without it being a touchscreen.
Obviously but I find it hard to believe a manufacturer would waste their time with that in 2018, but it does appear to be the case on LX and lower trims. They just get a 5" display.
It runs a tiny RTOS called eCos. Just does backup cam, AM/FM, Bluetooth, and USB sticks (as long as the media is WAV or MP3)
My only complaint is that it sorts media files on USB sticks by timestamp rather than alphabetically
Right?! Yeah don’t enforce safer driving practices or anything. Just make it easier to not pay attention.
I’ve always said phones should lock you out of almost every feature when motion/gps data shows movement. Then you have to put in a PIN to use your phone as a passenger. Like the Navi screen warnings of before “do not use while driving”. This way people can be held accountable for the dangerous shit they do.
What, you don’t want to update every week? Sure, some of them brick you, but… it’s worth it for the new icons right!!!
It’s called “continuous deployment”. It’s the latest term for not having the hassle of separating development and production.
Ah, the “American dream”. Competition. Sadly only if it is competition not just lobbying power.
At least for the last year, the only thing that has tempered Donald’s worst impulses is markets.
So in a way, these kinds of movements and deals are essential to international security.
