Switzerland is in the process of buying their F-35 and is now seriously reconsidering it.
Are we? We lost the initiative to stop the purchase, doesn’t that mean we’re pretty fucked.
Poland is also buying… But I am not sure if our government is smart enough to reconsider. They want to be nice to the Orang Dictator hoping he will spare them… Ignoring that lord Musk already started attacking them on twiXter.
That doesn’t make any sense, at least to me, as you’re in the EU, so any tariffs placed on the EU are placed on Poland.
This is completely unacceptable. These Jets were given by European NATO countries to defend Europe.
This is a decidedly hostile act by USA against Europe!And it shows that European countries need to stop buying American weapons.
The French learned their lesson here and its paying off!
Which is such a bangup job. The F-35 program was predicted on allies being able to buy it. Which they were in droves.
It’s weird, but Trump might do irreversible damage to the US MIC. Not out of any principled stance, but because he doesn’t understand anything.
There’s a lot of outstanding orders for F35s from EU countries. No idea if it is possible to weasel out of them, and if the sunk cost wouldn’t be too high to make it politically viable…
“but because he doesn’t understand anything.”
I hate this take. He knows exactly what he’s doing. Following Vlad’s marching orders.
It’s weird, but Trump might do irreversible damage to the US MIC.
If that hasn’t happened already, the customers must be extremely dense.
AFAIK EU is absolutely planning independence from USA, meaning our weapons cannot be dependent on USA either.Yeah, I still don’t know if the whole Russian spy thing is serious or not. He’s definitely doing everything to deconstruct the US empire, but it was already on its way down regardless anyway, and it can all basically be explained by incompetence or greed too.
Is it just me or does europe really need to partner on building defensive tech. Why are we all buying american jets when their capabilities are quickly weakened when the wrong president is elected and cuts support.
They absolutely do. Imagine if the US invaded Greenland. The Danish (and European partners) F35s would be switched off for sure.
They can’t switch off the F-35’s. Countries can absolutely load their own mission program. They just aren’t allowed to by agreement. If that agreement becomes useless for whatever reason then the country can just load it themselves.
If there does not exist a kill-switch there are still so many things they can do. Here is an interesting read on the subject https://www.byteseu.com/812441/
Yeah but there’s a Gulf of difference between Afghanistan and Ukraine. There’s other countries that manufacture spare parts and have maintenance experience willing to help. Ukraine also has a technological sector of it’s own. Afghanistan was completely dependent on the US.
Don’t get me wrong, we shouldn’t be here. Trump is a fucking idiot asshole. But Ukraine shouldn’t be panicking yet.
The sad thing is, this would be a completely hysterical thing to say like 10 years ago but now it’s a serious consideration.
Electing this dickhead once is a blip but doing it twice in a row indicates that the american voters actually want this, which is deeply troubling for Europeans (and the rest of the world).
Bush junior’s first term was a blip. His second one should have been enough to look for other partners.
Most of the American voters were too fucking stupid to realize the consequences of what would happen when they stayed home instead of voting or supported the orange Putin stooge that’s made of turds.
Republicans have been attacking and damaging the public education system ever since I was born.The problem is also that the us has proven it can’t be trusted. 50% of the population can at anytime vote a complete nutcase into office.
There is no way back from this even if by a miracle, there is another election and democrats win.
The world is moving on from the us.
Yeah, even if we elected rational center left leadership for the next few decades, it would take 30 years to be trusted again and we’ll still never recover our previous position of responsibility.
*think they want
Which american politicians get elected has almost nothing to do with the policy preferences of the american electorate. It’s such a propagandised celebrity contest with billions in dark money astroturfing in various ways, I doubt the average voter is making an informed decision.
Can confirm. Currently living inside the disinformation sphere. It’s hard to think over all the noise.
And even if their bumbling idiot is gone, I have no trust that the US will keep allies and not alienate them by the next election. Even if the most charismatic democrat would take over the office, I would always have in the back of my mind how that idiot crashed every thing we built together.
To the US public made a clear demonstration that they don’t give a duck about international relations. It will take a century to rebuild trust.
Note: Iran still uses F-14 Tomcats.
Possibilities for implanting a logic bomb are endless, but there are still no case reports about an US-originating plane becoming remotely disabled.
(Russians would absolutely like to listen to a message which accomplishes that, meanwhile allies would definitely want ot change encryption keys on any plane which is supposed to receive that. I also don’t think that military planes will accept unencrypted messages. And their communications subsystems are separate subsystems, which can be disabled or replaced.)
Meanwhile, in a hypothetical doomsday scenario, Danish F-35s would land (or be unloaded from a container) in China, and be greeted with cheers, red banners and golden confetti. Damage to the US would far exceed anything that Denmark could do by firing something.
Note: these are scenarios which are not supposed to happen, but dramatic loss of trust among allies can actually result in that - if country A backstabs country D, there is nothing that really prevents D from betraying A to C.
It’s certainly classified info, but I sincerely doubt the F35 has a kill switch.
If you have a kill switch on a weapon, that means an enemy can potentially disable your weapons.
One can argue that only export models would be equipped with a kill switch, but that puts the US in the position of potentially having Allied planes disabled remotely, leaving the US as the only air support in a conflict.
It’s far more likely that the US would simply discontinue parts and software updates, leaving a former ally scrambling to maintain their sudden white elephant fleet, while the US updates their own software to better manage fighting an identical aircraft that they know the exact technical specs of.
It’s also worth remembering that a bunch of the electronics in the F35 were developed by BAE Systems. If we really got to the “trying to sabotage the planes sold to allies” stage, America’s F35 fleet would be fucked too.
France says hi
Sweden as well.
Yips, in Europe we probably need to decouple essential ( software) tech asap.
I’ve been saying this for 20 years. Proprietary software creates a dangerous dependency that takes away freedom and increases cost.
Now we see the ultimate downside to sacrificing freedom for convenience.I said this to a few people and you can suddenly see the realization that their entire digital life is completely dependent on America and is now being called in question. It should of been before because of anti-trust, not following local regs, or taxes. But it was inconvenient.
Don’t know how far it can goes. IP blocks, MAC address blocks, DNS, Root Auths? There is basic stuff that is meant to be international, but is unduly American. America going to break the internet trying to use it for dominance? If you don’t want responsibility, or act responsible, you lose the power that responsible gave. If American fucks this position up, they will never have it again.
sacrificing freedom for convenience
True.
The masses like convenience until it isn’t anymore. Nothing can be done, but pay the price and move forward at this point.
Also noteworthy, is that this " critical dependency " was strategically pushed as well ( part of the NATO deal so to speak). Although, many don’t want to actively speak up about it (lemmy post)
There is an aftermarket for F-16 planes and their spare parts.
Also, I should note that Iran (of all countries) is still flying its F-14 Tomcats, unless I’m mistaken.
The most immediate effect is ceasing updates for then AN/ALQ-131 countermeasures pod. If Russians come with a new radar or make their existing weapons behave differently, this could have considerable effect on the survivability of an F-16 in a hot situation.
A lot of F16 parts were manufactured in Europe as well, it was part of the deal to buy the aircrafts.
I’ve worked for multiple aerospace companies in Belgium and Switzerland that were manufacturing f16 parts.
ceasing updates for then AN/ALQ-131 countermeasures pod.
"
<<MISSILE LOCK>>It looks like your countermeasures license has expired! Please contact your dealer to continue receiving updates and stay secure against modern threats!"Man this future is stupid.
I get the analogy, but it’s more like you have an old version of the software that can’t defend you against the newer fancier stuff. Continuous cat and mouse game.
The Ukrainians were already doing those updates for their non American jets, I think they’ll probably be okay in that realm.
Fucking trump the traitor. Goddamn.
