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I don’t even know what else to add to this headline. This is so fucked up and tragic scary and infuriating and it will in no way slow the resistance.

  • kelpie_returns@lemmy.world
    5·
    3 days ago

    I mean…yeah. Regular people will do whatever they can to put off or avoid having to become murderers, regardless of where they live. Even if the murder would be justified; regular, normal people just don’t want to become killers.

    Obviously something needs to be done (or, more accurately, many things should have been done decades ago to prevent all of this cruel nonsense, but alas). Asking and expecting average people to kill just because it is the easiest way to envision out of this…that’s just not reasonable. Besides the social and emotional ask of it being monumental on its own, it would also be met with the greatest military force in world history, anyway.

    Many US citizens refuse to respond with militant might for the same reasons other world powers are refusing to intervene with the same: the violence it will spark will kill way, way more innocent souls than what is currently happening. Many of which will die horrific, torturous deaths en masse. Entire cities left as smoking husks. Families erased from the gene pool. Terrors and horrors unimaginable would become the norm, as is always the case with war.

    I can very much understand the frustration that stirs this line of thought, just as well as I can empathize with those being asked to pursue it. We all want this to be done with and we all want a simple, direct solution. There are very good and rational reasons to not provoke the US military, however. For foreign and domestic parties, alike.

    Tbc, I dont know the most appropriate solution either, but asking regular people to become murderers because it seems easy/possible from the outside…that’s just not a realistic ask for many of the same reasons that no world military is going to invade the US mainland anytime soon. Not without a whole lot of pain and suffering first befalling those average folks, at least. Enough people here have to agree that there is nowhere left to run before the regular joe can be overcome by the killer within, and that is a reasonable and usual response to these sorts of things, all over the world.

    And sorry for ranting on it. I am a pacifist, so the regularity and casualness of people telling me I should nut up and kill a politician is very disturbing to me on many levels. Again, I can understand the sentiment. I just can not sit with it morally, philosophically, or even on the terms of basic reasoning. The response would be overwhelming and truly devastating. I dont think further violence has ever really fixed this problem and I dont believe that’s going to magically change now.

    Edit: spelling

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      3 days ago

      am a passificst, so the regularity and casualness of people telling me I should nut up and kill a politician is very disturbing to me on many levels.

      I don’t think pacifists should be arming up and shooting anyone. I think people who cling to their guns and talk about fighting for freedom need to nut up or shut up (and I’m fine with the latter, just shut up already).

      I dont think further violence has ever really fixed this problem and I dont believe that’s going to magically change now.

      I think this is naive. Violence is an incredibly effective tool at degrading organizational capacity, destroying institutional memory, and quelling public opposition.

      When you’re dealing with ICE agents who can cavalierly execute civilians in public, I would love all three of those things to befall them, because I don’t want an organization with the capacity, the knowledge, and the public platform to execute my neighbors.

      But insurgent violence comes with enormous personal risks, it requires professional training, and it rarely produces tangible results in a single lifetime (especially the lifetime of a militant insurgent). So I’m certainly not going to ask people to stick their necks out.

      I just get tired of people posting TikToks in Camo Cosplay, pretending they’re part of some Last Line of Defense Against Tyranny. You’re bad liars. No serious person takes the 2nd amendment seriously as a political deterrent.

      • kelpie_returns@lemmy.world
        1·
        3 days ago

        Violence is, absolutely, necessary at times. I dont disagree with that.

        What I meant by that was that every time this sort of threat has been resolved by violence, it only sets the stage for future violence, because the true problem lies in the systems we use this violence to uphold. Those systems need addressing and reconfiguring if we ever want to see things like this become cultural relics. My phrasing could have admittedly been better, but I do not think it is naive to see the problem behind the problem.

        The gun nuts do need to stfu about their hollow ideals though. I’d say we are in complete agreement on that note. If they were to actually ‘walk the walk’ however…I dread what that may usher in tbqh.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          3 days ago

          What I meant by that was that every time this sort of threat has been resolved by violence, it only sets the stage for future violence, because the true problem lies in the systems we use this violence to uphold.

          The systems are the people. And when you kick out a lynchpin - be it MLK or Charlie Kirk - that system can fail.

          The gun nuts do need to stfu about their hollow ideals though. I’d say we are in complete agreement on that note. If they were to actually ‘walk the walk’ however…I dread what that may usher in tbqh.

          We’ve got people being rammed in their cars and shot gangland style through the windows.

          Delta Force is snatching foreign presidents while the sitting president dismisses the need for next year’s local elections.

          You can only waggle your finger saying “It could get even worse” so many times.

          • kelpie_returns@lemmy.world
            1·
            3 days ago

            You are not wrong. Violence will again become a necessity, as has always been true thus far. Still tho, as bad as things are, a mishandling of the situation could very easily make things exponentially and explosively worse.

            Again, I dont know what the proper fix is. But I do know that violence begets itself and as long as we remain in this cycle, it will only be a matter of time before our ways out of that abusive loop are razed entirely. That final revolution (“revolution” in the sense of this cycle of violence tbc) will most likely be coming someday and, with the US military being what it is and with who is currently leading it, that day’s coming could be very near. People are scared to act because all actions are met with reactions. Whether or not it is what you want to be true or to hear, it still could get a lot worse than it currently is, and throwing oil on fire is a great way to hasten that potential future.

            Something needs to be done. I agree with that with every fiber of my being. I just dont see violence sparking further violence as the fix many of us hope it could be. Knowing what devastation the US military will check it with is not a hypothetical, a suggestion, or parody. It is a dire reality that ill-advised/ill-placed violence can and will usher in if allowed.

            It’s a common saying in gun culture that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. How do you stop a bad guy with more guns, missiles, and nukes than nearly all of the rest of the world combined? Good guys with guns can stand against that, but not for long and not in the “we are going to win this fight” sort of way either. They will be mowed down and turned to mush before they can even draw, if that is what the US military wants to happen.

            I agree with your overall sentiment. I just cant find any reason to believe that what youre proposing will lead in the direction you are hoping it will, unless your hope is true and utter devastation.