Ford is going to fail. China will win. China sees the future is electric while Ford is grubbing for bigger profits off IC monsters that people can’t afford anymore.
China plans strategies centuries out, they’ve already won, we just haven’t felt the economic impacts yet.
America functions entirely on reactions, and sometimes reactions to reactions. With subway surfers running in the corner.
Ford serves two markets, the Americas, and everybody else, with an approx. 2/3rd vs. 1/3rd split respectively.
Sure they sell some small amount of F150s and similar oversized cars/trucks outside of the Americas, but its measured in 1000s.
European market is mostly much smaller cars. Ford has had the best selling car in the UK on and off with its Puma, a small SUV that is a mild hybrid.
Outside of the Americas they are starting to move forward with EVs, and will even have their own Renault produced R5 clone with the new Fiesta, but its too little too late as its not due to 28.
The moment BYD is allowed in the US. American made cars will be officially dead. The only thing keeping the industry alive is lack of outside competition.
Yeah, I mostly agree. Most Americans will buy an EV as soon as the price is reasonable and the charge anxiety goes away. If BYD made a hybrid that was as cheap as their current cars and performed like a Tesla, I think most new car buyers would forget their qualms with China really quick
I lived in mainland China for a while (Shanghai and then Shenzhen), and honestly I wasn’t impressed with BYD. Felt like a discount Tesla. The name is stupid as hell too: “build your dreams.” It will definitely be popular with people looking for a cheap EV, which is a good thing, but I don’t think it’ll make that much of a dent in the mid-range and luxury markets. But arguably that probably shouldn’t be their target market. I’d love to see what happens if the US actually let them be sold.
That was my impression. I don’t have confidence these cars will last much past the warranty, but it’s very clear BYD had a savvy marketing team to pay of YouTubers who “review” these vehicles.
Nailed it. I rode in one almost daily for the years I lived there, especially in Shenzhen. They felt cheap. Like most things over there (buildings, etc) they looked great from 100 ft back, but up close you could see all the flaws and cheap construction. The “made in China” stamp isn’t usually one associated with quality and BYD isn’t any different. That being said—I’d love for them to come to the US and steal Tesla’s market share. I absolutely loathe Tesla. As for the YouTubers, they are all paid shills. The amount of cheap bullshit YouTubers try to sell on a regular basis is staggering. That’s how they make their money. If you believed YouTubers every dumb product on earth would be “the best ever” or “epic” or “game changing” or whatever hyperbolic superlative.
youTube has always been about informercials. The trick is the fake sincerity, i.e. Marques Brownlee.
I mean, China is just the latest competition, we already have a lot of foreign cars in the US. I still think the government will ensure Ford exists simply for domestic manufacturing and security.
In the 60s, US panicked when VW brought in the Beetle, in the 70s, they panicked when Honda brought in the Civic, Etc. etc. it’s because US auto industry shows no innovation and are constantly blind sided by better products made abroad.
There is no affordable EV in North America. If Detroit is worried, make one.
It’s the price that make them a game changer.
I don’t think they’ll ever let them sell them at those prices in the US. This is actually one of the times where tarrifs are smart economic policy. Both to protect a critical manufacturing capability and also because there is a lot of evidence that Chinas prices arent sustainable longterm (seems like the car industry may be their next evergrande).
You make it sound like the US government has not given Detroit >$100B since 2008. And America is the land of the free, where Ford and GM and Stellantis are free to make an inexpensive EV.
And that price is fake because the Chinese government is making up the difference between the real price and the price it takes to undercut all the competition. This is how China takes over industries wherever it goes, and once they have control of these industries, the price unsurprisingly shoots up as there is no one left to compete.
Where has this happened?
For an obvious example, go to the store and pick any random item off the shelf and its likely made in China. They’ve done it with ships, solar panels, batteries, steel, railcars, and now EVs to list just a few.
They certainly aren’t selling feature-rich EVs for 1/4th the price of everyone else on the planet for altruistic reasons and I’m sure you can’t list any examples of an industry under monopolistic control that benefitted anyone other than the people controlling it.
If it were not for chinese manufacturing, you could not afford the computer you typed this on. If apple still made computers in the US like they did in the 80s they would cost $9500.
And if Apple still made computers in the US, we might all be earning $9500 a week here in the US with all these manufacturers competing for local workers.
I’d like some specific examples of what you originally described please, not just a general “China makes everything” as if that proves anything.
China makes everything because Western companies sought to maximise profit.
Costs go up, because the Western companies selling the Chinese-made product put the price up to maximise profit.
You don’t get to outsource everything and charge top dollar for it, then cry to the government that you need protection when the Chinese companies start competing in the same market with the same product for cheaper.
I did list specific examples. You claiming “China makes everything because Western companies sought to maximise profit. Costs go up, because the Western companies selling the Chinese-made product put the price up to maximise profit” is also a generalization that proves nothing.
In these industries listed, the Chinese government is subsidizing these companies so they can sell these products for a cheaper price than anyone else in the world and put their competition out of business, which is exactly why “they make everything.” Your argument is akin to claiming that the ever increasing wealth billionaires isn’t the reason why the average American becomes poorer each year, as if the two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
Capitalism dictates going with the cheapest price and China ensures it can always offer the cheapest price using their government’s deep pockets, but this isn’t sustainable forever which is why prices must rise once the competition is out of the way. They can then take this capital and repeat the cycle in a new industry.
How you can claim “yeah China makes everything but that doesn’t prove they take over every industry they move into” without any sense of irony is quite bewildering. There’s no secret knowledge or magical formula that exists only within the borders of China that allows them to undercut everyone else. It’s just a giant pile of money that allows them to do it.
If that were true, Germany would’ve killed American cars a long time ago.
If that were true, Korea would’ve killed American cars a long time ago.
If that were true, Japan would’ve killed American cars a long time ago.
Lack of outside competition? American brands already make up a minority of sales in the US. The majority of sales are brands from elsewhere in the world.
People are just making up talking points at this point.
Nah, Americans don’t want electric cars, they want monster truck sized pickups and that’s what Ford is selling. They’re barely even buying ICE sedans these days which are still more convenient than EVs.
This thread seems to think Americans will embrace small efficient vehicles suddenly.
Chinese EVs will be a punchline on TV comedies.
Which is why it will never happen
I don’t see what would stop a state like California from arbitrarily legalizing BYD vehicles just like they did with weed. The current admin has already used up most of the soft leverage actions it has available just to be pissy and ‘they imported China cars!’ would make for a particularly eye-rolling casus belli for the civil war they intend to instigate.
I would guess byd vehicles don’t have all the required safety standards the US requires of vehicles. I have no idea if that’s true though.
Then why write it, because it’s not true.
Isn’t the Ford CEO a big China fan who has been praising Chinese EVs for years?
BYD was built by Warren Buffet.
He dailies a byd. And refused to give it up. I can’t wait to see these running around Canada.
If I remember correctly, he’s actually currently dailing a Xiaomi Su7
Crap. Yup. It’s going to take me forever to get used to these new car brands. Lol.
Doesn’t Ford mostly focuss on the American market these days? They don’t make reasonably sized or affordable cars anymore, only oversized pickups and SUVs, which don’t sell well outside of North America.
Meanwhile BYD has the Chinese market already, and is expanding globally, selling relatively affordable EVs.
I’m not exactly surprised that they are outselling FordThey don’t make reasonably sized or affordable cars anymore,
In Europe they do, and it’s still a reasonably popular brand despite Trump.
North America only gets the tanks.
That must have changed recently then, because last I checked they only really had the Mustang left over.
Ever since they discontinued the Ford Focus and Ford FiestaEdit: Looks like they introduced the Ford Puma since then, and a handfull of SUVs
The explorer is a mid size car. I USA it would go as a CUV.
Edit:
The European Explorer EV is a mid size car.The Ford Explorer is not even close to being a mid-size car
Here is it compared to a Peugeot 2008, which is a “mid-sized” car by European standards
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/peugeot-2008-2023-suv-vs-ford-explorer-2019-suv/The Ford Explorer is an absolute tank compared to the Peugeot
The 2008 is a pumped up 208, and is absolutely a small car, bumped up a bit from a sub compact.
The CUV is not for compact, it signifies crossover which means it has driving capability like a sedan.
The CUV is a pumped up sedan, the 2008 is a pumped up sub micro.The ID.4 I own is a medium sized car. And the explorer is actually a bit smaller.
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/ford-explorer-ev-2024-suv-vs-volkswagen-id4-2020-suv/Peugot 2008 / Ford Explorer comparison (Explorer is of courser the BEV version as BEV is 70% of the market here)
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/peugeot-2008-2023-suv-vs-ford-explorer-ev-2024-suv/The comparison between 2008 and ID.4 is not nearly as extreme here as the picture you show?
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/peugeot-2008-2023-suv-vs-volkswagen-id4-2020-suv/IDK if one is an American explorer and the other European?
Looks like the picture you show is from the same site?Edit:
Made the same link twice by accident. So I corrected links and added a bit of explanation.
Stellantis, GM, Ford all colluded to stop making lower cost vehicles.
Its not collusion. They just can compete against Japanese and South Korean brands in this segment so all the R&D money designing and building compact cars was going to waste. People would rather buy a Civic or Corolla than a Cruze or Focus.
It’s no like they’re forcing people to buy bigger cars especially considering these brands already make up a minority of sales in the US.
CEOs have repeatedly told media they have no interest in lower margin vehicles. So they chose to hand this over to China.
Ford stopped selling cars completely, because trucks are cheaper to make because they loophole safety standards and peope pay more money for something that is big.
I’ll disagree, personally I’d have bought a Mondeo over a VAG wagon in a heartbeat if they still made them. I got talking to a salesman at my local dealership and the sentiment is basically “no-one really understands what they’re doing, they’ve stopped making all the cars that sold well”
No doubt there are outliers, but sales figures show that German brands (and Tesla) dominated sales in the EU while the Mondeo was still around. Here in the US, this segment is dominated by Asian and German brands as well which leaves little room for companies like Ford or GM to compete, especially when this whole segment shows declining sales year over year. They sell far more trucks and SUVs which is why those have become their focus. Why spend billions to build a car that only earns you millions?
Stellantis does make affordable vehicles though… in Europe…
They own Peugeot, Citroën, Fiat, Opel, etc and they have been making great affordable EVs for a few years now.Stellantis in the US and Stellantis in Europe seem like two entirely different entities that don’t talk to one another.
Stellantis brought the 500 over and it sold very well first three years, the problem was the car was garbage and in the end, they sold 23 in one quarter. You can’t fuck people over and expect them to buy the same garbage over and over, that only works for Jeep buyers.
They still make reasonably sized and priced cars for the UK market.
Compact/Crossover SUVs are hugely popular worldwide, they’ve been replacing sedans/hatchbacks here. I was surprised to learn BYD’s best selling car wasn’t the smaller Dolphin or Seagull, but the Song Plus.
But, yeah, Ford has been focusing on bigass expensive cars here too. Their cheapest (gas) vehicle for this year is more expensive than the BYD Song plug-in hybrid, which is twice the price of the Seagull.
Nice. Westerners really are getting bad deals so they can make their oligarchs richer.
I’m excited for these to come to Canada.
