except it doesn’t just because maid has been authorized it automatically happens. that decision is as it has always been placed with the one asking for it.
That’s true, but it doesn’t contradict what I’m saying. The person making the decision is the patient, but someone does need to authorize it. And in authorizing it/not authorizing it, that physician is quite literally making a decision about who lives and dies.
I’m not really in the mood to keep going in circles about this.
then lets not circle back around to who is involved and look at the results of not allowing it. the alternative is failed suicide attempts and long term suffering. assuming we can treat or make people jump through hoops or find some kind of grand arbiter just prolongs suffering and helps us look the other way as we force people poorly trained or in immense pain to figure it out themselves or put themselves/others in legal jeopardy in addition to suffering. If I have the right to life as long as it is not at the expense of others than i have the right to end it.
This kind of seems like a better outcome to me though? Like, that’s better than a successful suicide attempt, no?
. . . and long term suffering
It’s not necessarily the case that someone with a mental illness is doomed to a life of extreme suffering. That’s an ablest mindset, and it does disservice to that community. When someone is in their darkest moment and unsure if things are going to get better, we should be giving them hope, not saying “you’re right, you’re doomed, but don’t worry you can kill yourself”.
I’m not entirely sure what you mean about the legal stuff.
Mental Health Illnesses aren’t just “oh I’m depressed, I should kill myself, humph!”.
You’re either very young, or very ill informed of mental health issues. Either way you should take time to learn about some of the different mental health disorders out there and what kind of hell living with some of them can be before speaking with such absolute conviction on a topic you know little to nothing about.
As for your
It’s not necessarily the case that someone with a mental illness is doomed to a life of extreme suffering. That’s an ablest mindset, and it does disservice to that community. When someone is in their darkest moment and unsure if things are going to get better, we should be giving them hope, not saying “you’re right, you’re doomed, but don’t worry you can kill yourself”.
That’s what the medical team is for. They don’t just tell you to kill yourself because you had a bad day. Have you ever interacted with a medical team for a long term health issue for any length of time? It is a slow meticulous process of tests and treatments and elimination of options that can take years. Get your head out of your ass and use your brain for fuck sakes.
That’s what the medical team is for. They don’t just tell you to kill yourself because you had a bad day.
Never suggested they did. But in the end they do end up killing people solely because they have a mental illness (assuming the expansion of MAiD goes through). There’s a reason why the UN considers this state sponsored eugenics. Very few other democratically run countries have done this since eugenics went out of fashion.
failed suicide attempts are rarely clean or lead to deep reflection if they have already gone through the maid process. maid is not some kind of instant approval we do it in an hour situation. failed suicide attempts at this level are messy and tend to involve mutilation and even deeper suffering. You seem to assume i am ableist and completely ignore the fact that there are people who have and will suffer to the very end and want assistance in doing something that is inherently undignified with some dignity while not having to worry about a doctor or a family member being charged with manslaughter for being with them in their last moments. maid gives those people a pathway to self reflect before they make a rash decision. please familiarize yourself with maid and the process before misrepresenting how it works.
failed suicide attempts are rarely clean or lead to deep reflection
So instead of focusing on suicide prevention we should just get our doctors to finish the job for them?
edit: that probably wasn’t the best wording. things have been getting a bit feisty in this thread and i feel the opposition coming in hot so i got defensive. i know you think ive misrepresented how maid works but i dont think i have. granted i havent gone into detail about the vetting and how its a long process etc but i assumed thats because we are all on the same page. there is one thing i havent misrepresented though and thats this: if this expansion goes forward, people will receive medical assistance in dying solely because they have a mental illness. i think this is a dangerous system and ripe for abuse; you dont, and you think its the merciful thing to do. thats fine, clearly we disagree. but if were to keep discussing this here, lets reign it in and keep it from getting nasty (im not saying im innocent in this department; i know im not).
except it doesn’t just because maid has been authorized it automatically happens. that decision is as it has always been placed with the one asking for it.
That’s true, but it doesn’t contradict what I’m saying. The person making the decision is the patient, but someone does need to authorize it. And in authorizing it/not authorizing it, that physician is quite literally making a decision about who lives and dies.
I’m not really in the mood to keep going in circles about this.
then lets not circle back around to who is involved and look at the results of not allowing it. the alternative is failed suicide attempts and long term suffering. assuming we can treat or make people jump through hoops or find some kind of grand arbiter just prolongs suffering and helps us look the other way as we force people poorly trained or in immense pain to figure it out themselves or put themselves/others in legal jeopardy in addition to suffering. If I have the right to life as long as it is not at the expense of others than i have the right to end it.
This kind of seems like a better outcome to me though? Like, that’s better than a successful suicide attempt, no?
It’s not necessarily the case that someone with a mental illness is doomed to a life of extreme suffering. That’s an ablest mindset, and it does disservice to that community. When someone is in their darkest moment and unsure if things are going to get better, we should be giving them hope, not saying “you’re right, you’re doomed, but don’t worry you can kill yourself”.
I’m not entirely sure what you mean about the legal stuff.
Mental Health Illnesses aren’t just “oh I’m depressed, I should kill myself, humph!”.
You’re either very young, or very ill informed of mental health issues. Either way you should take time to learn about some of the different mental health disorders out there and what kind of hell living with some of them can be before speaking with such absolute conviction on a topic you know little to nothing about.
As for your
That’s what the medical team is for. They don’t just tell you to kill yourself because you had a bad day. Have you ever interacted with a medical team for a long term health issue for any length of time? It is a slow meticulous process of tests and treatments and elimination of options that can take years. Get your head out of your ass and use your brain for fuck sakes.
Never suggested they did. But in the end they do end up killing people solely because they have a mental illness (assuming the expansion of MAiD goes through). There’s a reason why the UN considers this state sponsored eugenics. Very few other democratically run countries have done this since eugenics went out of fashion.
Have you even watched the Genvia session?
Have you even read the article were discussing?
I have. It takes some liberties from the video it is citing to put it nicely.
failed suicide attempts are rarely clean or lead to deep reflection if they have already gone through the maid process. maid is not some kind of instant approval we do it in an hour situation. failed suicide attempts at this level are messy and tend to involve mutilation and even deeper suffering. You seem to assume i am ableist and completely ignore the fact that there are people who have and will suffer to the very end and want assistance in doing something that is inherently undignified with some dignity while not having to worry about a doctor or a family member being charged with manslaughter for being with them in their last moments. maid gives those people a pathway to self reflect before they make a rash decision. please familiarize yourself with maid and the process before misrepresenting how it works.
So instead of focusing on suicide prevention we should just get our doctors to finish the job for them?
edit: that probably wasn’t the best wording. things have been getting a bit feisty in this thread and i feel the opposition coming in hot so i got defensive. i know you think ive misrepresented how maid works but i dont think i have. granted i havent gone into detail about the vetting and how its a long process etc but i assumed thats because we are all on the same page. there is one thing i havent misrepresented though and thats this: if this expansion goes forward, people will receive medical assistance in dying solely because they have a mental illness. i think this is a dangerous system and ripe for abuse; you dont, and you think its the merciful thing to do. thats fine, clearly we disagree. but if were to keep discussing this here, lets reign it in and keep it from getting nasty (im not saying im innocent in this department; i know im not).