No, it’s not lol, it’s completely inconsequential. They didn’t protect the protestor whose hand was blown off by ICE’s use of “less lethal” munitions this morning. I don’t give a fuck if they pass out donuts and do some PR segments, there’s no evidence to suggest they’re meaningfully on our side… yet. Especially after state police brutalized protestors at the site of Alex’s murder.
I’m eager to be wrong. I think it’s a vital turning point so I very, very, very much hope to be wrong. But I don’t see it yet.
Serious question, what would demonstrate they’re meaningfully on our side to you, but wouldn’t be a literal civil war? Because short of that, federal troops feeding protesters is a big deal.
Following ICE wherever they go and documenting their conduct. Civilians are already doing this and Walz has requested that they do so, so having the military do at least what you’re expecting the citizens to do is literally the bare minimum.
Warning citizens when ICE is approaching, perhaps even using state emergency warning systems. If this is considered protected First Amendment conduct for citizens, it may be for military as well. I’m not sure from a legal perspective, but they should be risking it to protect citizens. Especially since Trump constantly takes an “ask for forgiveness, not permission” approach.
Put state resources behind the prosecution of Alex Pretti’s murderer. (It’s been intimated that this is being done via the BCA but I’m not seeing any actual indications of progress.)
Put state resources behind enabling a general strike / eviction freeze / other economic benefits to both enable protest and prevent vulnerable immigrants from needing to go to work.
Not fucking sending state police to brutalize protestors at the site of Alex Pretti’s murder.
I think those would all fall short of “a literal civil war”.
I see federal troops feeding protestors as an attempt to maintain the perception of the state as a legitimate authority without actually needing to take any meaningful action. “Look guys, they’re with us!”… except when the bullets / less-than-lethal projectiles start flying.
Is a great thing, I hope they do this (though if they do follow through I suspect trump will order them to stop)
Would unfortunately be a civil war thing - it’s not open conflict, but it would require the subversion of federal systems (the emergency warning systems) to actively sabotage federal troops. I don’t know about the free speech rights, but generally speaking the military has sharp restrictions on what counts as free speech.
Another serious question (and setting aside the question of legality because who fuckin’ cares at this point), what resources should the state put out to support this? Having worked with several state governments, there’s not really “spare cash” floating around to enable this kind of unbelievable expenditure, so it’s somewhat limited to an eviction freeze (which is almost entirely out of the state’s control)
Not really a national guard thing but fair enough. I’ve seen some limited vids from there but most of what I’ve seen was one violent interaction then the police fled, was there more than that? I’ve seen people say they came back that evening but I can’t find a good source for that.
I too see 1. as the unambiguous thing to do, follow ICE, record everything. Be a visible deterrent. I don’t think Trump has the right to order them to stop and I don’t think they are inclined to listen to Trump over the interests of their own community.
Though being around the question is what is the guard response to an event like the Pretti shooting would be if they were there documenting things… Being in that scenario with guardsmen might be impossible to both avoid conflict and provide an acceptable response. Guess we would have to hope that the inherent risk of escalation tempers the ICE people, but they haven’t exactly shown themselves to have that sort of restraint…
Unfortunately the national guard was federalized, so Trump is their direct commander and has every right to order them to stop doing things like recording other groups. I think the hope is that the Guard presence would outright prevent another execution, I don’t know how accurate that hope is but it’s a far better option than we have right now.
I mean he called in the Minnesota National Guard.
…and then what?
Nothing. Because that’s all Democrats will ever be good for: theater.
At the time you made this comment he’d called in the MN guard… a day before.
Currently the guard is feeding protesters so IDK man, that’s actually pretty big.
No, it’s not lol, it’s completely inconsequential. They didn’t protect the protestor whose hand was blown off by ICE’s use of “less lethal” munitions this morning. I don’t give a fuck if they pass out donuts and do some PR segments, there’s no evidence to suggest they’re meaningfully on our side… yet. Especially after state police brutalized protestors at the site of Alex’s murder.
I’m eager to be wrong. I think it’s a vital turning point so I very, very, very much hope to be wrong. But I don’t see it yet.
Serious question, what would demonstrate they’re meaningfully on our side to you, but wouldn’t be a literal civil war? Because short of that, federal troops feeding protesters is a big deal.
Some places to start could be
I think those would all fall short of “a literal civil war”.
I see federal troops feeding protestors as an attempt to maintain the perception of the state as a legitimate authority without actually needing to take any meaningful action. “Look guys, they’re with us!”… except when the bullets / less-than-lethal projectiles start flying.
Is a great thing, I hope they do this (though if they do follow through I suspect trump will order them to stop)
Would unfortunately be a civil war thing - it’s not open conflict, but it would require the subversion of federal systems (the emergency warning systems) to actively sabotage federal troops. I don’t know about the free speech rights, but generally speaking the military has sharp restrictions on what counts as free speech.
He was killed two days ago and the court hearing to attempt to ensure BCA has access to the site is ongoing as I write this so hopefully there will be progress soon!
Another serious question (and setting aside the question of legality because who fuckin’ cares at this point), what resources should the state put out to support this? Having worked with several state governments, there’s not really “spare cash” floating around to enable this kind of unbelievable expenditure, so it’s somewhat limited to an eviction freeze (which is almost entirely out of the state’s control)
Not really a national guard thing but fair enough. I’ve seen some limited vids from there but most of what I’ve seen was one violent interaction then the police fled, was there more than that? I’ve seen people say they came back that evening but I can’t find a good source for that.
I too see 1. as the unambiguous thing to do, follow ICE, record everything. Be a visible deterrent. I don’t think Trump has the right to order them to stop and I don’t think they are inclined to listen to Trump over the interests of their own community.
Though being around the question is what is the guard response to an event like the Pretti shooting would be if they were there documenting things… Being in that scenario with guardsmen might be impossible to both avoid conflict and provide an acceptable response. Guess we would have to hope that the inherent risk of escalation tempers the ICE people, but they haven’t exactly shown themselves to have that sort of restraint…
Unfortunately the national guard was federalized, so Trump is their direct commander and has every right to order them to stop doing things like recording other groups. I think the hope is that the Guard presence would outright prevent another execution, I don’t know how accurate that hope is but it’s a far better option than we have right now.