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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: August 8th, 2023

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  • So , given that New Zealand and Australia are using their law based framework to deny visa access it’s all good right ?

    I also noted you conveniently didn’t address this in your response.

    Yes freedom of speech ends at criminal action or illegal behavior. That is where those boundaries exist. If they do not end at that juncture then where do they end?

    I’m not saying that laws aren’t useful for this purpose I’m saying that using laws as a baseline without accounting for laws being different in different places is a weak argument foundation, not even mentioning that laws change over time based on unlawful actions being allowed and previously lawful actions now being denied, so not only do you need to account for geographic location you also need to account for time.

    As an example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67601647

    By your proposed framework, you’re cool with this because their freedom of speech (or i suppose expression in this instance) is illegal.

    To be clear, if you are cool with that, you do you, I’m not your parent, nor am i any moral or ethical authority. I’m using it as an example to gauge how married you are to the idea of laws as absolutes when it comes to freedom.


  • So your baseline is whether or not something is criminal.

    That’s easily solved, create laws outlawing the undesirable behaviour, such as the ones in Germany regarding Nazi paraphernalia.

    Or the ones defining potentially damaging behaviour as a reason for denying visa access… give it a sec, I’m sure you’ll get it.

    Obligatory, countries outside of the US exist and, I imagine rather inconveniently for your argument, have their own laws.

    But if your definition of the basis of democracy is freedom of speech except for when there is a law specifically preventing it then you probably have bigger concerns than weak foundations for your arguments.





  • Yes everyone understands all that. But are you saying we people that vote blue should keep trying the same failing tactics?

    No, but if your tactic changes haven’t been implemented by the time voting comes around and the choice remains “nazi’s vs not nazi’s” then you should be voting “not nazi’s”.

    “The Dems continue to fuck up repeatedly, so i can understand why people chose nazi this time” isn’t a tenable argument.

    I’m not disagreeing with your disappointment in, well, everything.

    I’m disagreeing with this part of your previous reply

    Anyone else other than literally Nazie’s (aka Trump, JD, the majority of RNC members and leaders, and some of their voters), shouldn’t be blamed.

    If a person understands that the choice is nazi vs not nazi and then actively chooses to not vote, they are tacitly choosing nazi.

    “If i vote for the not-nazi’s, they won’t understand how disappointed in them i am” is not a good argument.

    “Their policies don’t align with what i want” is not a good argument

    “They don’t represent my values” is not a good argument

    There is no good beginning half to the sentence “< INSERT REASON HERE >, so i tacitly enabled the nazi’s”

    Except maybe, “I genuinely believe the alternative is worse, so i tacitly enabled the nazi’s”.

    Even then i’d probably disagree, but it would be a substantive argument.








  • Do note that religion only ever seems to be a problem when it’s conservative or authoritarian, a pattern that holds for many things outside of religion as well.

    That’s disingenuous at best.

    Religion is a problem when it used to push principles on to other people ( specifically when those principles are harmful and unwelcome ), conservative and authoritarian principles happen to lend themselves to this kind of behaviour quite readily which is why you see criticism aimed at those types of religions.

    and with startling consistency.

    Perhaps it might be worth looking in to why this consistency exists.